Sunday, November 15, 2009
Manny Pacquiao vs Miguel Cotto
By Randy De La O
Maybe the spectre of Antonio Margarito was in the ring last night with Miguel Cotto, or maybe it was just that Manny Pacquiao was just too good a fighter for Cotto. (You think?") Either way, niether Cotto nor his corner had an answer for Pacquiao. I don't know that anyone fighting today has an answer. Floyd Mayweather Jr? I don't think he has the balls. Sugar Shane Mosley? I'm not quite as sure as I was before last nights fight but if any fighter today can go toe to toe with Pacquiao and match his hand speed, it's Mosley. Juan Manuel Marquez? At one time but not anymore.
Cotto kept the fight competitive for the first half of the fight, despite getting knocked down in the third and fourth rounds. Once Manny got his groove on, the fight became a one sided beat down. Cotto, in full survival mode, sought only to end the fight on his feet. That alone took more heart than most of us can imagine. There was no quit in Cotto last night and for that alone he should be applauded.
Going into this fight I thought Cotto would win, not easily but I thought he would win. My reasons were sound and valid but there are always the intangibles. We can't see what lurks beneath a fighter's skin or what goes on in his head. My guess is, if I can say this with out taking anything away from Pacquiao, is that Cotto still suffered from the beating he took from Antonio Margarito. That became evident as the fight wore on. That's not making an excuse for Cotto either. He made the decision to fight Pacquiao and he alone lives with the consequences.
With this win over Miguel Cotto, Pacquiao has proven himself to be the undisputed "Pound for Pound" King. I can imagine that every champion from 152 up was breathing a sigh of relief when Pacquiao announced that the welterweights, 147, is his last stop. That is where he will remain.
I don't know why they allow the fighters to be interviewed prior to the fight but someone should have wrapped duct tape across Larry Merchant's mouth last night. In an act of thoughtless stupidity, the mentally bereft Merchant brought up the Margarito beating just before fight time. Why put that in Cotto's head? Why plant the seed of doubt?
Was it a great fight? It had it's moments in the first half and Pacquiao definitely gave a great performance but it evolved into a one sided beating when Cotto realized there was nothing he could do to stop Pacquiao.
My wife Jeri said it best when Cotto, in one of the later rounds was walking to his corner "The poor guy really looks lost". That about sums it up.
The fight, for Cotto's WBO Welterweight title, which took place at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, was stopped 55 seconds into round 12 by referee Kenny Bayless.
Pacquiao vs Cotto: POST FIGHT THOUGHTS
By John Bardelli
Another fight bust! Pacquiao and Cotto. Great fight? Nada! At an earlier time when writing was more laborious than it is today, I might have called my folks after seeing the fight and told them in describing the fight ---- "Nothing to get excited about and nothing to write home about."
Anything but a great fight from my vantage! And, in reality, nothing really exciting about the match aside from some early anticipation about whether Cotto was going to be effective in some exchanges with Manny. Once that anticipation left us by the second, third, fourth or fifth round, the only question became whether or not Pacquiao really has the fire power --- which many think he has by virtue of his demolition of Ricky Hatton --- and whether Pacquiao would take out Miguel Cotto in the same fashion. It was clear after the fifth round that the hand writing was on the wall and Cotto was in survival mode.
Pacquiao made the fight as he was the aggressor, throughout, with the possible exception of the first round. Incidentally, while many gave the first round to Cotto because he caught Pacquiao with several jabs, I gave the round to Pacquiao as he controlled the tempo and landed the more effective and harder shots during the round. The only round I gave to Cotto was the 5th, ironically, where he showed a little aggressiveness after having been floored in the 4th round, the knockdown being a much more convincing knockdown than when he was caught with a right chop in the 2nd round.
I am thrilled my prediction of a Cotto knockout in the 9th or 10th rounds went astray. Not at any single moment did Cotto pose a threat to Pacquiao. Cotto fought a defensive fight throughout the evening as evidenced by where he held his gloves --- in a style reminiscent of a peek-a-boo stance sans hand speed, sans foot speed, and without an ounce of the type of ruggedness which I anticipated he would bring into the ring with him as he had done in mauling Zab Judah, and thereby bullying Pacquiao to places he didn't want to be and then let his power shine forth. There was no demonstration of power this evening. Marguerito took the fight out of Cotto as well as the desire he once had. I assumed he was still a powerful puncher.
Au contraire, the only power I saw this evening was that brought into the ring by Pacquiao --- and he didn't demonstrate that he had much power as a welterweight. As welterweights, if either Cotto or Pacquiao had to fight Philadelphia's Gil Turner, let alone Kid Gavilan of the 50's, I don't think either would be on their feet come the 7th round. YouTube - Kid Gavilan (Cuba) v Gil Turner (USA) Municipal Stadium USA PART 1 OF 2 1952
There is a difference folks.
Cotto is finished. Pacquiao has more fights left in him and, presumably, as the welterweight champion he will fight at that weight. The clamor is for Pacquiao to take on Floyd Mayweather, another safety first customer. Mayweather and Pacquiao makes for a boring fight twelve round fight --- a ton of hype and a ton of anticipation during the match --- but little else.
Strange how this fight business goes. Miguel Cotto beats Shane Mosley. How in the hell did that happen? The Miguel Cotto who entered the ring against Manny Pacquiao this evening would last less than 5 rounds against the Shane Mosley we've seen in his last two fights against Mayorga and Marguerito. That Mosley beats the Pacquiao who fought this evening.
The hand writing is on the wall. I am happy that Manny Pacquiao left the ring tonight having tasted only a modicum of leather. The fans want more of him. His aura of invincibility grows but, off this showing, I would say that he is in deep trouble if he defends against Mosley or Joshua Clottey. I know very little of the other contending welterweights aside from Marguerito.
The day may come when Edwin Valero moves out of the lightweight division and lays a challenge to Manny Pacquiao. Some think that Valero is a wild novice who would be taken apart by a now veteran campaigner such as Manny Pacquiao. Let's see how Valero progresses over his next five fights. I think this kid has the goods and when he punches with that left hand it is not sent to say hello as an attention getter. He punches to say "sayonara" or "adios amigo" and all of Mr. Valero is sent with the goodnight kiss. How will he react when he, himself, is on the receiving end of some leather? I don't know and, additionally, I can't say whether or not he has fought any tough fighters who have hit him on the button more than once. That, too, awaits definition.
Manny Pacquiao has thrilled all his fans and rightfully deserves a hero's welcome when he returns to the Philippines. Although boxing fans would disagree with me, if Art Aragon were to advise Pacquiao he would say, "Manny, you've made millions. You may think that there is more to be made and that there are more mountains to climb. Son, I can only tell you that a fighter can never retire too early but he certainly can retire to late. Get out while you can with your health and faculties intact."
A lot has been said and written about the impact that Freddie Roach has had in training, and let's face it, in managing Manny Pacquiao. If Freddie Roach and Manny Pacquiao are as close as it is written, then Freddie Roach owes it to Manny Pacquiao to parrot the sage words of Art Aragon and tell Manny precisely that.
Time will tell.
Another fight bust! Pacquiao and Cotto. Great fight? Nada! At an earlier time when writing was more laborious than it is today, I might have called my folks after seeing the fight and told them in describing the fight ---- "Nothing to get excited about and nothing to write home about."
Anything but a great fight from my vantage! And, in reality, nothing really exciting about the match aside from some early anticipation about whether Cotto was going to be effective in some exchanges with Manny. Once that anticipation left us by the second, third, fourth or fifth round, the only question became whether or not Pacquiao really has the fire power --- which many think he has by virtue of his demolition of Ricky Hatton --- and whether Pacquiao would take out Miguel Cotto in the same fashion. It was clear after the fifth round that the hand writing was on the wall and Cotto was in survival mode.
Pacquiao made the fight as he was the aggressor, throughout, with the possible exception of the first round. Incidentally, while many gave the first round to Cotto because he caught Pacquiao with several jabs, I gave the round to Pacquiao as he controlled the tempo and landed the more effective and harder shots during the round. The only round I gave to Cotto was the 5th, ironically, where he showed a little aggressiveness after having been floored in the 4th round, the knockdown being a much more convincing knockdown than when he was caught with a right chop in the 2nd round.
I am thrilled my prediction of a Cotto knockout in the 9th or 10th rounds went astray. Not at any single moment did Cotto pose a threat to Pacquiao. Cotto fought a defensive fight throughout the evening as evidenced by where he held his gloves --- in a style reminiscent of a peek-a-boo stance sans hand speed, sans foot speed, and without an ounce of the type of ruggedness which I anticipated he would bring into the ring with him as he had done in mauling Zab Judah, and thereby bullying Pacquiao to places he didn't want to be and then let his power shine forth. There was no demonstration of power this evening. Marguerito took the fight out of Cotto as well as the desire he once had. I assumed he was still a powerful puncher.
Au contraire, the only power I saw this evening was that brought into the ring by Pacquiao --- and he didn't demonstrate that he had much power as a welterweight. As welterweights, if either Cotto or Pacquiao had to fight Philadelphia's Gil Turner, let alone Kid Gavilan of the 50's, I don't think either would be on their feet come the 7th round. YouTube - Kid Gavilan (Cuba) v Gil Turner (USA) Municipal Stadium USA PART 1 OF 2 1952
There is a difference folks.
Cotto is finished. Pacquiao has more fights left in him and, presumably, as the welterweight champion he will fight at that weight. The clamor is for Pacquiao to take on Floyd Mayweather, another safety first customer. Mayweather and Pacquiao makes for a boring fight twelve round fight --- a ton of hype and a ton of anticipation during the match --- but little else.
Strange how this fight business goes. Miguel Cotto beats Shane Mosley. How in the hell did that happen? The Miguel Cotto who entered the ring against Manny Pacquiao this evening would last less than 5 rounds against the Shane Mosley we've seen in his last two fights against Mayorga and Marguerito. That Mosley beats the Pacquiao who fought this evening.
The hand writing is on the wall. I am happy that Manny Pacquiao left the ring tonight having tasted only a modicum of leather. The fans want more of him. His aura of invincibility grows but, off this showing, I would say that he is in deep trouble if he defends against Mosley or Joshua Clottey. I know very little of the other contending welterweights aside from Marguerito.
The day may come when Edwin Valero moves out of the lightweight division and lays a challenge to Manny Pacquiao. Some think that Valero is a wild novice who would be taken apart by a now veteran campaigner such as Manny Pacquiao. Let's see how Valero progresses over his next five fights. I think this kid has the goods and when he punches with that left hand it is not sent to say hello as an attention getter. He punches to say "sayonara" or "adios amigo" and all of Mr. Valero is sent with the goodnight kiss. How will he react when he, himself, is on the receiving end of some leather? I don't know and, additionally, I can't say whether or not he has fought any tough fighters who have hit him on the button more than once. That, too, awaits definition.
Manny Pacquiao has thrilled all his fans and rightfully deserves a hero's welcome when he returns to the Philippines. Although boxing fans would disagree with me, if Art Aragon were to advise Pacquiao he would say, "Manny, you've made millions. You may think that there is more to be made and that there are more mountains to climb. Son, I can only tell you that a fighter can never retire too early but he certainly can retire to late. Get out while you can with your health and faculties intact."
A lot has been said and written about the impact that Freddie Roach has had in training, and let's face it, in managing Manny Pacquiao. If Freddie Roach and Manny Pacquiao are as close as it is written, then Freddie Roach owes it to Manny Pacquiao to parrot the sage words of Art Aragon and tell Manny precisely that.
Time will tell.
Saturday, November 14, 2009
A FIGHT AND FIGHTER FOR THE DECADE
by John A. Bardelli
November 14, 2009
4:20 p.m.
Some great fights took place in the soon to be completed first decade of the Twenty First Century. Too, not being satisfied with its position within the world scene, the United States has launched yet another series of war at the commencement of the decade when it invaded Afghanistan in 2001 and Iraq, for the second time, in 2003, to sadly add to the United States' reputation as a bellicose nation which, in analysis, rightfully draws the ire and condemnation of the vast majority of nations and people within the world community as a consequence.
One wonders, with its penchant for attacking non-white countries with little or no standing armies to mass a defense, when and if the United States might launch warfare against Mexico in an endeavor to stem the tide of what it professes to be illegal immigration coupled with the professed claim that it must stop the importation of drugs into the United States --- while the Republicans in Congress, all the while, profess righteous indignation at the state of affairs, pretense and disdain for all that is Mexican.
Ironically, however, those same Republicans are silent with respect to the massive shedding of lives and blood by Latinos, blacks and other minorities, who adorn Army green in this all-volunteer military while "spreading democracy" for the United States territorial aspirations throughout the world.
Too, those same Republicans have long ignored the contributions of the Latinos in their keeping alive the strong work ethic once so prevalent in this country as the very term "Latino," in a word, has become synonymous with "labor" --- indeed back breaking and suffocating labor at that.
To select the greatest fight which has taken place, thus far within the decade, let alone trying to decide who was the greatest fighter during this same period of time, is an awesome task under any circumstance. Clearly, as far as the selection of the fighter of the decade, the Pinoy, Manny Pacquiao, has to be strongly considered for the honor of the single greatest fighter of the decade and one or more of his fights will undoubtedly come up for nomination as fight of the decade as well.
In fact, Pacquiao's dominance in the ring has been so great that should the United States ever decide to turn its military muscle southward with its sights on Mexico, it might consider engaging Pacquiao for the task at hand as he became a wrecking ball, as far as deflating talented Mexican fighters, who entered the ring with him, were concerned, literally destroying the creme de la creme which Mexico has had to offer as sacrificial lambs. Latino personages inclusive of Marcos Antonio Berrera, Juan Manuel Marquez, Erik Morales, Hector Velazquez, David Diaz, and Oscar De La Hoya all shed blood and were swept up in cyclonic fashion by Pacquiao despite engaging the Pinoy southpaw in some interesting and challenging contests.
When the English clamored --- we've seen enough of Mexican fighters try to bring the reign of Pacquiao to an end ---- and that it had the real McCoy to engage Pacquiao, enter one Ricky Hatton --- Pacquiao teamed with John Barleycorn working overtime behind the scenes, keeping fast company with Hatton to do a number on the best England had to offer when Great Britain gifted to the tigerish Pacquiao, another lamb who, before the bout was 60 seconds old was on the receiving end of some vicious right hooks --- and before the fight was three minutes old, received a left hand which rendered him totally unconscious and literally dead on the canvas as an strange silence swept over half of England which had trekked to Las Vegas for the occasion.
Yes, indeed, Frank Churchill and Joe Waterman, who brought many a great fighter from the Philippines to the United States, culminating in the great Pancho Villa, would be in seventh heaven witnessing this southpaw, heralding from General Santos City, Cotabato del Sur, Philippines, born Emmanuel Dapidran Pacquiao, and known world wide as Pac Man or Manny --- going through the lighter divisions like a scourge while remaining totally within himself as a person, as a man, as a fighter, and in his spiritual walk with God.
Pancho Villa, too, would understand and approve of Pacquiao becoming the heir apparent to Villa's own legacy as the greatest Pinoy fighter of them all. For the record, Villa amassed within the span of but 6 years in the ring, 82 victories within 90 recorded fights and destroyed England's Jimmy Wilde to annex the world's flyweight championship before succumbing to the ravages of a tooth infection which lead to his death following an ill advised fight with Jimmy McClarnin. Ill advised because Villa went into the fight with the infection spreading but he did not want to disappoint his fans by having the fight canceled.
Trained by Freddie Roach throughout the decade, from 2001 to the present, Manny Pacquiao has a collision course with destiny and the bestowal of boxing immortality upon his head as the two Boxing Hall of Fames, --- the International Boxing Hall of Fame and the World Boxing Hall of Fame, --- already have him within their respective scopes to pounce the minute Pacquiao becomes eligible for induction within the rules governing each entity.
But Pacquiao has business to attend to first, and is on a virtual collision course come Saturday, November 14, 2009, with Puerto Rican Miguel Cotto, a gifted and bullish strong welterweight who will offer Pacquiao his sternest test this far in Pacquiao's career. My reflective thought: Pacquiao will certainly take a hard long look at retirement when this fight is decided, however it should end.
In a rugged and vicious display of fighting by both fighters, Manny Pacquiao will be stopped in the 9th or 10th round if, after slicing Cotto to ribbons and bits within the earlier rounds, this fight has not been stopped and awarded to Pacquiao because of Cotto's cuts, by the sixth round. After the sixth round, the end will be sudden with Pacquiao unable to continue and he will be counted out as only Manny Pacquiao would have it were he given the alternative to retire in his corner rather than to go down fighting.
The speed and accurate punching of Pacquiao will rip and tear Cotto's countenance, having him bleeding from cuts around both eyes, his nose and mouth, to the point that the fight will be on the verge of being stopped before the bell for the sixth round rings. However, if not stopped by that time, the tide of battle will turn and the continual strength, punching power and numbing bombardment presented by Cotto will begin to reveal itself as Cotto, having absorbed and survived Pacquiao's right hooks, uppercuts, and combination punching, makes use of his ability to shift to his natural southpaw fighting style to his advantage and belabors a bewildered Pacquiao, --- who has to wonder what has kept Cotto upright for six rounds --- in a manner with punches to Pacquiao's body, hips, kidneys, head, where it becomes impossible for Pacquiao to keep up his own spirited pace as he tires due to the infliction and accumulation of punches he has to absorb from the non-stop pressure applied by Miguel Cotto. The single biggest factor in this fight is the ability of Miguel Cotto to counter Pacquiao's southpaw stance by, himself, shifting to his natural southpaw stance and landing viciously numbing left leads and left hooks from his natural fighting style --- punches which have the capacity to and which will eventually drop Manny Pacquiao.
Pacquiao will drop and be counted out while the nation of the Philippines rightfully descends into prolonged mourning and shock. Puerto Rico, on the other hand, will celebrate for weeks on end in token of the victory as it seizes its own moment in the sun and gives thanks to one of the great number of Puerto Rican fighters, indeed, athletes, --- who have risen from the ranks of squalor and deprivation to become well known athletes and, in the case of Miguel Cotto, to the pinnacle of his profession.
The pundits will cry for a rematch but Manny Pacquiao, having gone out on his shield like the warrior he is, was, and ever will be, will never fight again and the Philippines, in shock as a nation, never believing what transpired could be within the realm of reality, let alone fancy, will take years to regain the proudness of a people and nation given to them by their redeemer of this ensuing decade, the great Manny Pacquiao.
This is all gut stuff. It comes from a feeling --- a reaction, and a fear that Manny Pacquiao is going to the well one time too often. The boxing greats who moved up within divisions, --- down through the history of this gamest of all sports, --- with rare exception, were successful for a time but none knew when to call it a day and bit off more than each could chew in some particular fight. Boxing writers who put their reputations on the line in making predictions about the outcome of fights --- have to scope the unfolding scenario and ask but one compound question: Is this the hour and is this the consuming fight?
The rise in rank comes with age --- comes with the putting on of weight --- and comes with a slowing of reflexes --- all of which adds up to the incessant gamble engaged in by fighters who perceive that they are invulnerable to ravages brought through the passage of time and the toll that comes with an aging process which is a different process by degrees within all humans. Stepping up in weight is fraught with danger, the type of danger which will become manifest on November 14th.
As I was told when yet a youngster by Young Firpo, nee Guido Bardelli, during a general boxing discussion: "A fighter thinks he is tough --- you think you're tough? Remember this! There is always someone out there who is tougher than you and he'll show you what toughness is if you stay around too long."
The amazing run of victories over the elite from Mexico --- the demolition of Oscar De La Hoya, and the near decapitation of Ricky Hatton, have all served to generate an aura of invincibility when assessing where Manny Pacquiao fits in among the elite of boxiana. The outcome of those fights were predictable and, as a fighter, lend little to gauge Pacquiao's greatness.
For the record, this writer predicted the round in which Pacquiao stopped De La Hoya and also predicted Pacquiao to knock out Hatton --- but thought it would occur later in the fight. De La Hoya, physically, looked horrible the week before the fight and was a shell upon entering the ring to engage Pacquiao. Hatton's own career record was built on beating up fighters with losing records. Not facing tough opposition, he thought he could lead two lives. The dissipation caught up to him and he paid the eventual price --- thanks must go to John Barleycorn as much as to Manny Pacquiao for the apparent ease and dispatch which creates the confusion.
Frankly, I hope that this assessment, on the eve of battle, is awash with a fear that his magnified beyond all reality. I hope, too, that the warning given by a fighter from a different era, --- through the listening to the voice of experience, especially the experience of a fighter who was in that same ring over 100 times in his own career, always should be heeded, --- is a warning which will not be realized in the ring on November 14, 2009, despite the fact that, realistically, we all should know that the time is near. My sentiments are with Manny Pacquiao but if this fight is not over by a sixth round stoppage on cuts, look for Pacman to be counted out in the 9th or 10th round.
Sunday, November 8, 2009
COMMENTARY ON HAYE-VALUEV FIGHT
By John A. Bardelli
November 7, 2009
I've just finished watching several of the early rounds and the last three rounds of the Valuev - Haye fight. Well, the Brits know how to get, in long time fight trainer Mel Epstein's vernacular, ... "a champeen." The Brits, as a rule, are great, great, great fighters and have a long and storied history contributing to the saga of boxiana. So my comments should not be construed to denigrate England nor the storied history presented by a litany of fighters spread through the divisions the equal of any who tread resin from the paperweights to the heavyweights. I hope in time, on deeper reflection as time passes, that I will be proven wrong about the talents of David Haye --- and that, he too, will take his place among the elite of the sport of boxing. For the time being, I confess to seeing an imposter in the ranks.
The heavyweight championship has long been the obsession of British Boxing fans and pundits. Try, try, and try, as they might --- the haunting specter of the heavyweight championship, save for New Zealander Ruby Bob Fitzsimmons eluded the fancied imagination of the Brits for nearly a century before Lennox Lewis captured the crown with dignity. And the Americans, maintaining a stranglehold on boxing throughout the entire century, rubbed it in mercilessly as though the taunting was a vestige emanating from the hatred of the Brits engendered by the Revolution War and King George.
Sing, drink beer, wave flags and cause a commotion --- is the common lot and approach British fight fans utilize in supporting one of their own --- regardless of whether there is a fight underway or not --- as was the case on the evening of Haye - Valuev, a fight which took place, in Nuremberg, Germany. But the Brits were in full force, none-the-less.
One way to quiet such non-sense, mind you, is to wind up a package of dynamite in the form of a Filipino and turn him loose --- following that type of a two-fisted explosion, the Brits become so awed that their quieted submission takes on the overtones of a day spent within one of the beautiful towered churches within the Church of England --- another of that country's obsessions akin to making "heavyweight champeens" even if the religious pomp has to be borrowed in its own right.
When one examines the long storied history of boxing greats heralding from England and the English Commonwealth, it takes little imagination to understand that this latest pretender to the heavyweight throne --- David Haye --- is a poor imitation when contrasted with storied greats throughout the dvisions, not just the heavyweights, emanating from those Isles, --- starting off course with Jem Mace.
Flipping pages and we are presented with the likes of Bob Fitzsimmons, Joe Calzaghe, Lennox Lewis, Ted "Kid" Lewis, Jimmy Wilde, Jem Driscoll, Benny Lynch, Owen Moran, Rinty Monaghan, Peter Cane, Lloyd Honeyghan, John Conteh, Jackie Brown, Howard Winstone, Freddie Welsh, Ken Buchanan, Nigel Benn, Freddie Mills, Chris Eubank, Frank Bruno, Len Harvey, Randy Turpin, Tommy West, Jock McAvoy, Jackie "Kid" Berg, Bruce Woodcock, Seaman Tommy Watson, Henry Cooper, Lennox Lewis, Len Wickwar, Peter Jackson --- just a small sampling of fighters who came to fight.
David Haye is not a fighter --- he is a track man and a dancer. There was a time when a properly constituted boxing commission had rules to enforce --- rules which did not award fighters for running about the ring without returning some leather ---- Haye, in those times, would have been penalized for his "fight avoidance" --- up to an including disqualification for refusing to fight. Haye went into a four corner basketball stall --- for the entirety of the fight with Valuev.
[As a post script, inserted as this paragraph, to what I wrote last evening --- word now has it that David Haye hurt his hand during the fight and he maintains that his injury was the cause of his non-violent demeanor in the ring. Valuev is ready for the rematch. Let the injuries heal and let's have the rematch. My prediction is you'll see a repeat of the running --- injury or no injury --- and this time around the boxing commission should inculcate into the power of the referee the authority to disqualify the runner who is not throwing punching --- and I don't mean an occasional token jab in the guise of a punch as Haye threw last evening.]
From what I saw of the fight, Valuev retained his title if for no other reason than he was the pursuer, the aggressor, that he came to fight, was willing to mix --- but it takes two to tangle. Haye wasn't dancing --- let alone doing the two step --- he was pure and simply running. When Ali fought Foreman ... Ali still landed effective punches while on the move and hit Foreman with more shots prior to the end of the fight than Foreman had ever tasted in the ring on a collective basis save his two fights with Peralta.
Another fight which comes to mind and that is Carnera and Loughran --- in Florida. Carnera knew that when Loughran was at a distance he might land some effective blows ... so Carnera bulled Loughran repeatedly to the ropes and beat the hell out of Loughran --- really roughed him up with gloves, forearms, and elbows in equal distribution. When Carnera finished Loughran ... a tattered and tired Loughran wasn't in the mood for joviality with the crowd and the reporters as one witnessed David Haye at the end of the distance run.
As a pure boxer ---- David Haye doesn't hold a candle to light heavyweight turned heavyweight, Tommy Loughran. Look, yourself, at Loughran's record for goodness sake and then tell me I am wrong in my analysis. Haye was handed a gift this evening and its another black eye for boxing --- something stinks horribly in England --- they've got a paper champ who is yet another cheapened version of the concept of a champion.
For the record, also, let it be known than Primo Carnera would have slaughtered David Haye --- and the naysayers will taunt me with --- "well, look what Baer did to Carnera." I'll debate those naysayers, one on one or collectively any day of the week, and, indeed, invite the debate, because they have no clue what transpired before the Carnera-Baer fight started, nor an understanding as to what took place inside the ring when Baer defeated Carnera to win the title, even though they profess to have seen the fight footage 10 times or more. The fact of the matter is --- they saw it but still don't know or understand what they saw occur in June of 1934 in Madison Square Garden.
Regardless, this is not a commentary about whether Baer did or did not win the fight ---- unquestionably, he did win the fight with Carnera --- but most certainly not in the manner that is "visualized" on film and not without understanding that Baer was on the verge of being kayoed, himself, in the middle and latter rounds of the fight.
Give me Carnera for every Klitchko or Valuev whom any boxing writer or interested spectator wants to claim are "great" fighters. Carnera would have eaten the three of them alive --- and if Max Baer, who fought two follow-up exhibitions with Carnera, were alive, he would say the same thing. As it was, following the second of the two follow-up exhibitions with Carnera, a puffy and beaten Baer remarked: "I am just glad the championship was not on the line tonight." All the while Baer spoke, Carnera eyed Max as though to say --- "Now, what in the hell do you think about it?"
As it is, I feel sorry for Valuev for he sought to make a fight of it. For a tutor, he should watch film footage of Primo Carnera to see how to cut off the ring and rough up runners like David Haye --- examine the Carnera-Loughran fight footage. I hope they have a rematch and I hope Valuev uses his size, strength, and some punching capabilities to corner Haye and get some leverage with ripping shots that will sap the strength out of Haye to the point that he wishes he had never become a fighter. It may be far to late in the game for Valuev to follow suit.
As as sidelight --- either prime George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, or Floyd Patterson, for examples, would have kayoed David Haye. Imaging the concept of going to a fight and a track meet breaks out and the decision is awarded to the marathon runner? At best, he should get a blue ribbon --- but not the crown that fits the head of the world's heavyweight champion --- there was a time when the highest honor achievable in all of sportdom was just that --- the heavyweight champion of the world --- and I emphasize "the." Alas --- those days are long gone --- and not likely to ever return.
November 7, 2009
I've just finished watching several of the early rounds and the last three rounds of the Valuev - Haye fight. Well, the Brits know how to get, in long time fight trainer Mel Epstein's vernacular, ... "a champeen." The Brits, as a rule, are great, great, great fighters and have a long and storied history contributing to the saga of boxiana. So my comments should not be construed to denigrate England nor the storied history presented by a litany of fighters spread through the divisions the equal of any who tread resin from the paperweights to the heavyweights. I hope in time, on deeper reflection as time passes, that I will be proven wrong about the talents of David Haye --- and that, he too, will take his place among the elite of the sport of boxing. For the time being, I confess to seeing an imposter in the ranks.
The heavyweight championship has long been the obsession of British Boxing fans and pundits. Try, try, and try, as they might --- the haunting specter of the heavyweight championship, save for New Zealander Ruby Bob Fitzsimmons eluded the fancied imagination of the Brits for nearly a century before Lennox Lewis captured the crown with dignity. And the Americans, maintaining a stranglehold on boxing throughout the entire century, rubbed it in mercilessly as though the taunting was a vestige emanating from the hatred of the Brits engendered by the Revolution War and King George.
Sing, drink beer, wave flags and cause a commotion --- is the common lot and approach British fight fans utilize in supporting one of their own --- regardless of whether there is a fight underway or not --- as was the case on the evening of Haye - Valuev, a fight which took place, in Nuremberg, Germany. But the Brits were in full force, none-the-less.
One way to quiet such non-sense, mind you, is to wind up a package of dynamite in the form of a Filipino and turn him loose --- following that type of a two-fisted explosion, the Brits become so awed that their quieted submission takes on the overtones of a day spent within one of the beautiful towered churches within the Church of England --- another of that country's obsessions akin to making "heavyweight champeens" even if the religious pomp has to be borrowed in its own right.
When one examines the long storied history of boxing greats heralding from England and the English Commonwealth, it takes little imagination to understand that this latest pretender to the heavyweight throne --- David Haye --- is a poor imitation when contrasted with storied greats throughout the dvisions, not just the heavyweights, emanating from those Isles, --- starting off course with Jem Mace.
Flipping pages and we are presented with the likes of Bob Fitzsimmons, Joe Calzaghe, Lennox Lewis, Ted "Kid" Lewis, Jimmy Wilde, Jem Driscoll, Benny Lynch, Owen Moran, Rinty Monaghan, Peter Cane, Lloyd Honeyghan, John Conteh, Jackie Brown, Howard Winstone, Freddie Welsh, Ken Buchanan, Nigel Benn, Freddie Mills, Chris Eubank, Frank Bruno, Len Harvey, Randy Turpin, Tommy West, Jock McAvoy, Jackie "Kid" Berg, Bruce Woodcock, Seaman Tommy Watson, Henry Cooper, Lennox Lewis, Len Wickwar, Peter Jackson --- just a small sampling of fighters who came to fight.
David Haye is not a fighter --- he is a track man and a dancer. There was a time when a properly constituted boxing commission had rules to enforce --- rules which did not award fighters for running about the ring without returning some leather ---- Haye, in those times, would have been penalized for his "fight avoidance" --- up to an including disqualification for refusing to fight. Haye went into a four corner basketball stall --- for the entirety of the fight with Valuev.
[As a post script, inserted as this paragraph, to what I wrote last evening --- word now has it that David Haye hurt his hand during the fight and he maintains that his injury was the cause of his non-violent demeanor in the ring. Valuev is ready for the rematch. Let the injuries heal and let's have the rematch. My prediction is you'll see a repeat of the running --- injury or no injury --- and this time around the boxing commission should inculcate into the power of the referee the authority to disqualify the runner who is not throwing punching --- and I don't mean an occasional token jab in the guise of a punch as Haye threw last evening.]
From what I saw of the fight, Valuev retained his title if for no other reason than he was the pursuer, the aggressor, that he came to fight, was willing to mix --- but it takes two to tangle. Haye wasn't dancing --- let alone doing the two step --- he was pure and simply running. When Ali fought Foreman ... Ali still landed effective punches while on the move and hit Foreman with more shots prior to the end of the fight than Foreman had ever tasted in the ring on a collective basis save his two fights with Peralta.
Another fight which comes to mind and that is Carnera and Loughran --- in Florida. Carnera knew that when Loughran was at a distance he might land some effective blows ... so Carnera bulled Loughran repeatedly to the ropes and beat the hell out of Loughran --- really roughed him up with gloves, forearms, and elbows in equal distribution. When Carnera finished Loughran ... a tattered and tired Loughran wasn't in the mood for joviality with the crowd and the reporters as one witnessed David Haye at the end of the distance run.
As a pure boxer ---- David Haye doesn't hold a candle to light heavyweight turned heavyweight, Tommy Loughran. Look, yourself, at Loughran's record for goodness sake and then tell me I am wrong in my analysis. Haye was handed a gift this evening and its another black eye for boxing --- something stinks horribly in England --- they've got a paper champ who is yet another cheapened version of the concept of a champion.
For the record, also, let it be known than Primo Carnera would have slaughtered David Haye --- and the naysayers will taunt me with --- "well, look what Baer did to Carnera." I'll debate those naysayers, one on one or collectively any day of the week, and, indeed, invite the debate, because they have no clue what transpired before the Carnera-Baer fight started, nor an understanding as to what took place inside the ring when Baer defeated Carnera to win the title, even though they profess to have seen the fight footage 10 times or more. The fact of the matter is --- they saw it but still don't know or understand what they saw occur in June of 1934 in Madison Square Garden.
Regardless, this is not a commentary about whether Baer did or did not win the fight ---- unquestionably, he did win the fight with Carnera --- but most certainly not in the manner that is "visualized" on film and not without understanding that Baer was on the verge of being kayoed, himself, in the middle and latter rounds of the fight.
Give me Carnera for every Klitchko or Valuev whom any boxing writer or interested spectator wants to claim are "great" fighters. Carnera would have eaten the three of them alive --- and if Max Baer, who fought two follow-up exhibitions with Carnera, were alive, he would say the same thing. As it was, following the second of the two follow-up exhibitions with Carnera, a puffy and beaten Baer remarked: "I am just glad the championship was not on the line tonight." All the while Baer spoke, Carnera eyed Max as though to say --- "Now, what in the hell do you think about it?"
As it is, I feel sorry for Valuev for he sought to make a fight of it. For a tutor, he should watch film footage of Primo Carnera to see how to cut off the ring and rough up runners like David Haye --- examine the Carnera-Loughran fight footage. I hope they have a rematch and I hope Valuev uses his size, strength, and some punching capabilities to corner Haye and get some leverage with ripping shots that will sap the strength out of Haye to the point that he wishes he had never become a fighter. It may be far to late in the game for Valuev to follow suit.
As as sidelight --- either prime George Chuvalo, Jerry Quarry, or Floyd Patterson, for examples, would have kayoed David Haye. Imaging the concept of going to a fight and a track meet breaks out and the decision is awarded to the marathon runner? At best, he should get a blue ribbon --- but not the crown that fits the head of the world's heavyweight champion --- there was a time when the highest honor achievable in all of sportdom was just that --- the heavyweight champion of the world --- and I emphasize "the." Alas --- those days are long gone --- and not likely to ever return.
Saturday, November 7, 2009
Upcoming Fight: Miguel Cotto vs Manny Pacquiao
Manny Pacquiao vs Miguel Cotto
MGM Grand, Las Vegas
November 14, 2009
By Randy De La O
When the fight between Manny Pacquiao and Miguel Cotto was first announced I thought, maybe Manny was bitting off more than he could chew. My first thought was that Cotto was going to be too big for Pacquiao but now looking at the tale of the tape I'm not so sure. The difference between Cotto and Pacquiao is minimal at best. At the very least, in this fight, I don't think size or moving up in weight is going to be a factor. At this point in time Manny has grown into a natural welterweight, which makes Cotto's decision to spot Pacquiao a few pounds a little foolish. If Cotto does win this fight it will be because he is the better fighter, not a bigger one.
If I have one beef against Pacquiao, and it's not a small one, it's the concessions he asks for when moving up in weight. I don't recall reading about any concessions in weight given to Henry Armstrong, Alexis Arguello, Julio Cesar Chavez, Roberto Duran or any number of all time greats. If you want to move up in weight and challenge the champion of that weight than fight that man at the division's weight or to my way of thinking there will always be an asterisk next to the "W", and deservedly so.
Pacquiao's camp is so confident of victory that they have a fight for Manny scheduled for a yet to be determined opponent on March 13th of next year. I still go by the old adage my father would toss at me from time to time, "Be confident, don't be overconfident". Probably easier said than done considering Pacquiao has been riding a wave of high profile victories and has not lost since his first fight with Mexican great Erik Morales in March of 2005. Prior to that Pacquiao had not lost a fight since September of 1999 when he was knocked out in the 3rd round by Medgoen Singurat.
Manny Pacquiao has proven himself to be an all time great, and he would probably be a factor in any era. Still his career has not been with out some controversy, specifically his two fights with Juan Manuel Marquez, a draw in 2004 and a split decision in March of 2008. Those two fights have been discussed ad naseum and I won't rehash them here and I bring them up only to show that, contrary to popular belief, Manny Pacquiao is a human being. maybe not like you and I, but still a human being. The other argument is that Manny fought some of his most spectacular fights against fighters that were either on the down side of their careers; Marco Antonio Barrera and Erik Morales or completely past their prime, as was the case with Oscar De la Hoya. There is some merit to those claims.
Having said that, Pacquiao has been a phenomenon in the world of boxing. His energetic, nonstop punching style and his ability to continually learn and improve, makes you wonder how he would have held up against guys like Henry Armstrong, Julio Cesar Chavez or Roberto Duran.
Miguel Cotto has the ability to win this fight. The biggest question coming into this fight is: has Cotto recovered from the savage beating at the hands of Antonio Margarito? Which begs the next question: Were Margarito's gloves loaded? Either way, it was a beating that could come back and haunt him in a moment of crisis in the fight with Manny Pacquiao, and there will be many moments of crisis in the fight with Manny. That's a given.
Cotto was on his way to a Pacquiao like following by Puerto Rican boxing fans and by boxing fans in general, prior to his loss to Margarito. His biggest wins were over; Carlos Quintana, Paul Malignaggi, Zab Judah and Sugar Shane Mosley and most recently Joshua Clottey.
Cotto has the style to make this a great fight and possibly win, he is an aggressive boxer/puncher that was out boxing Antonio Margarito in their fight last year. Which again begs the question: Were Margarito's gloves loaded? It's shame that we even have to ask that question.
I don't like making predictions anymore but lest I look like a wimp and risk an asterisk next to my name, I'm going to predict a close, hard fought decision win by Miguel Cotto. While I don't think Pacquiao is biting off more than he can chew I do believe Cotto can and will win this fight. Sometime when a fighter is soaring at his highest he gets his wings clipped and sometimes a great fighter, having lost it all, and desperate for redemption can make a comeback worthy of the ages.
That being said let the best man win!
PACQUIAO vs COTTO - FIREPOWER HD
Sugar Shane Mosley Vs. Miguel Cotto Highlights
Manny Pacquiao vs Ricky Hatton Highlights
Friday, November 6, 2009
Austin " No Doubt" Trout wins WBC Continental Championship of Americas belt !
Photo courtesy of Goldsticker Public Relations
Austin Trout (21-0, 13 KOs) of Las Cruces, New Mexico defeated hometown fighter Taronze Washington (13-11, 7 KOs) last night in Dallas, Texas to win the WBC Continental Championship of Americas. Trout won the fight via a 12 round decision by 120-108 on all three of the judges cards.
"The fight was a one sided affair, with Washington throwing a flurry of punches then going up against the ropes in a peek-a-boo defense, where Austin would score the majority of his points. Austin is excited about capturing his 3rd belt in 2009 and gaining a spot for a future world title fight. We’d like to thank everyone for the support you’ve given us !"...Louie Burke
Thursday, November 5, 2009
Louie Burke: Austin Trout Update
Note: I am a day late in posting this update, my apologies. Austin Trout fights Taronze Washington, Thursday November 5, 2009 in Dallas, Texas. Randy
By Louie Burke
We arrived in Dallas last night about 8:00. Once we settled in Austin went for a light jog on the treadmill to shed a couple of pounds. He ended up on weight at 154 last night prior to eating dinner. We were told that weigh-ins will be held at 6 pm today so we have a long weight before our pasta pre meal.
Austin’s feeling good and is anxious to "get it on". He knows this another obstacle towards his goal in becoming Las Cruces’ first world champion and has not cut any corners in preparing for Taronze Washington, getting good sparring with Siju Shabazz, Tim Meek, Abie Han and Michael Brooks.
This may be the last fight for Austin this year. It’s been a year of keeping our passports in our back pocket and ready to go to the next venue whether it be in Toronto, Mexico, Panama or Dallas, Tx or hometown, Las Cruces.
It’s been a good run thus far and the rewards of the victory’s have been two belts and a # 2 ranking with the WBA, hopefully after tomorrow night a third belt will be added to the mix along with a solid WBC ranking.
Austin feels blessed by the activity and the way things have worked out and thanks every one for the support they’ve given.
At the scales Austin Trout weighing in at 153.9 and Taronze Washington at 153.7 !
The weigh-ins took place at the up town La Quinta Inn in Dallas. The bouts tomorrow night will be at the Dallas Petroleum Club, which will be an exclusive invitation only event. Seating is limited and has been sold out, my understanding is that the tables are going for $5,000 apiece!
Austin’s fight will be 12 rounds for the WBC Continental of Americas Super Welterweight title. Word is that since Washington has been with the Hatley Brothers gym in Dallas his improvement has been significant and is somebody we don’t want to underestimate. Washington is on a 4 fight win streak, stopping his last opponent in the first round and recently upset Guadelupe Martinez who was 16-1 at the time.
The fight card only consists of 4 bouts, Austin’s being the main event of the evening.
The contestants in bout #1, will be super welters, Charles Hatley from Dallas vs Brandon Oldham, Lewiston, TN. In a 4 rounder.
Bout #2 will be a 4 round mixed martial arts card of heavyweight’s Zachariah King, Ft Worth against Stephen Adkisson, Mabank, TX.,
Bout #3 will be a 6 round heavyweight battle against Billy Willis, Houston, and Kendrick Releford of Ft. Worth.
Austin’s fight is scheduled after the Willis and Releford fight and is estimated to start about 10:00 pm. The first fight is supposed to start at 8:30 pm.
By Louie Burke
We arrived in Dallas last night about 8:00. Once we settled in Austin went for a light jog on the treadmill to shed a couple of pounds. He ended up on weight at 154 last night prior to eating dinner. We were told that weigh-ins will be held at 6 pm today so we have a long weight before our pasta pre meal.
Austin’s feeling good and is anxious to "get it on". He knows this another obstacle towards his goal in becoming Las Cruces’ first world champion and has not cut any corners in preparing for Taronze Washington, getting good sparring with Siju Shabazz, Tim Meek, Abie Han and Michael Brooks.
This may be the last fight for Austin this year. It’s been a year of keeping our passports in our back pocket and ready to go to the next venue whether it be in Toronto, Mexico, Panama or Dallas, Tx or hometown, Las Cruces.
It’s been a good run thus far and the rewards of the victory’s have been two belts and a # 2 ranking with the WBA, hopefully after tomorrow night a third belt will be added to the mix along with a solid WBC ranking.
Austin feels blessed by the activity and the way things have worked out and thanks every one for the support they’ve given.
At the scales Austin Trout weighing in at 153.9 and Taronze Washington at 153.7 !
The weigh-ins took place at the up town La Quinta Inn in Dallas. The bouts tomorrow night will be at the Dallas Petroleum Club, which will be an exclusive invitation only event. Seating is limited and has been sold out, my understanding is that the tables are going for $5,000 apiece!
Austin’s fight will be 12 rounds for the WBC Continental of Americas Super Welterweight title. Word is that since Washington has been with the Hatley Brothers gym in Dallas his improvement has been significant and is somebody we don’t want to underestimate. Washington is on a 4 fight win streak, stopping his last opponent in the first round and recently upset Guadelupe Martinez who was 16-1 at the time.
The fight card only consists of 4 bouts, Austin’s being the main event of the evening.
The contestants in bout #1, will be super welters, Charles Hatley from Dallas vs Brandon Oldham, Lewiston, TN. In a 4 rounder.
Bout #2 will be a 4 round mixed martial arts card of heavyweight’s Zachariah King, Ft Worth against Stephen Adkisson, Mabank, TX.,
Bout #3 will be a 6 round heavyweight battle against Billy Willis, Houston, and Kendrick Releford of Ft. Worth.
Austin’s fight is scheduled after the Willis and Releford fight and is estimated to start about 10:00 pm. The first fight is supposed to start at 8:30 pm.
MARCIANO, MOORE and THE INSIGHT OF HARRY KESSLER
By John Bardelli
Bardelli Response: Oh brother, is Mr. Craster on a mission to destroy the accomplishments of Rocky Marciano as is evident from this post and several others! Please, Mr. Craster, go back and look at the fight! And, I write these words as both a long time admirer of both Rocky Marciano AND Archie Moore. I'll share some of what I've written about Moore and the greatness of Mr. Moore in its proper forum --- now is not the place nor time for doing so.
When Marciano was floored by Moore for the count of one, perhaps two, Marciano arose and gave absolutely no indication of showing a lack of "control of his senses," as you state, from which anyone could conclude, as you are trying to do, that he was ready to go, implying that if Moore could have got to him quickly, Marciano would have been knocked out.
Kessler then describes the fight and the eventual knockout of Archie Moore in the ninth round. Kessler
continues in his biography:
"I have shown a film of [the fight] hundreds of times when lecturing to foundry organizations, service clubs or charitable groups." * * *
"It shows that Moore went to the far corner. I gave Marciano a normal count and when he got up, I gave the two of them the signal to begin mixing it up again. Archie Moore moved in -- but with a slight hesitation. Remember--he had taken a strong shot from Marciano before he put the champion down. I suspect he may have been a tiny bit reluctant to charge in too quickly!"
"Contrary to protecting Marciano, I probably did Rocky a disservice when I purposely dispensed with wiping his gloves on my shirt after the knockdown. It would have given him another second or two to recover! I was criticized by one sportswriter for my failure to do so but there wasn't enough resin on the canvas that early in the fight to make any difference. Maybe the reporter had a point. So did I: Rocky's gloves were not dirty."
"Archie's on going lament has reach me at infrequent intervals over the years. * * *
"Several months after the fight, Rocky and Archie met while changing planes at the Newark, New Jersey
airport. * * * [T]heir dialogue went this way:
Archie: "Well, Harry's a friend of mine and I just want to say that to build publicity for a return match. Harry
don't mind!"
Kessler from his autobiography: "But I do mind, Archie! And if you read it here, I wish to hell you would cease and desist!"
Kessler and his brother had a part in Moore's introduction to the world of boxing when Archie was 13 years old in St. Louis, Missouri at a time when Kessler had refereed about 25 of Moore's fights as an amateur and a pro in the St. Louis area. Kessler suspects that Moore was upset because he thought Kessler should have been more favorable to Moore. Kessler retorts: "I never favored anyone in the ring."
Craster Pushes On: You forget to add that the great beating Marciano gave Moore in rds 6-9 came from mainly low blows that brought AM's hands down and exposed his head.
Bardelli Responds: If you are interested in complaining about fouls, I submit that you dedicate a post to cover Evander Holyfield's 8 or more fouls of Mike Tyson in their second fight, with nary a warning or a point being taking away by Mills Lane, despite protests being lodged by Tyson's corner and by Tyson himself following his receipt of the multiple flagrant fouls inflicted by Holyfield. All of this, of course, lead Tyson to resort to the primitive and the law of the jungle as he responded as an enraged and wounded animal would and should, under the circumstances --- regrettable as Tyson's response was since this was a professional fight governed by rules prohibiting flagrant fouling.
[Author's Note: This essay was written circa 1999-2000, before the advent of You-Tube, and got its impetus as part of an on-going web-site dialogue where everything imaginable was being printed as gospel truth in terms of assessing the merits of fighters. Therein lies the backdrop for the reasoning behind the creation of this essay --- the rest is history. Craster was someone whose name I did not know, one of many individuals and characters who spoke what they no doubt believed to be true --- espousing solipsistic platitudes to the bitter end. However his beliefs, as I recall, were rather benign and mild compared to many on that site.]
Craster Writes: Marciano was floored by Moore in rd 2 and when he got up he wasn't in control of his senses! That is a fact nobody can change or hide, it is also a fact that RM got the usual gift from the ref in that he got a full 8 count when the rule didn't apply, for he had jumped up with loose legs at the count of 2.
Bardelli Response: Oh brother, is Mr. Craster on a mission to destroy the accomplishments of Rocky Marciano as is evident from this post and several others! Please, Mr. Craster, go back and look at the fight! And, I write these words as both a long time admirer of both Rocky Marciano AND Archie Moore. I'll share some of what I've written about Moore and the greatness of Mr. Moore in its proper forum --- now is not the place nor time for doing so.
[Note: This critique/analysis was written before any of us heard of U-Tube. I am throwing it in for the reader's convenience ... as a footnote to the analysis.]
Before submitting this response, I did just that, i.e., watched the fight in its entirety, simply because I could not believe what you had written about the fight. I have heard these stories before and the source of the "facts," as you deem them to be ... and in reporting these "facts," ... derive from the Old Mongoose himself. You are simply reporting what Archie Moore had to say in rationalizing his personal annihilation!
Marciano-Moore Yankee Stadium Ticket, September 20, 1955
Oftentimes, because they have such strong egos and cannot fathom the concept of defeat, fighters have to
justify or rationalize why they were defeated. If they don't, then their self-image is dealt a severe blow and
this impacts upon their ability to be an effective fighter. In other words, a defeat always has to be explained
away and there has to be a reason. Very rarely will you hear a fighter say in an interview that "the other guy
was better tonight." No, there has to be a justification, an excuse, a rationalizing of the defeat. As Ernest
Hemingway wrote in The Old Man and The Sea, "Man can be destroyed but he cannot be defeated."
justify or rationalize why they were defeated. If they don't, then their self-image is dealt a severe blow and
this impacts upon their ability to be an effective fighter. In other words, a defeat always has to be explained
away and there has to be a reason. Very rarely will you hear a fighter say in an interview that "the other guy
was better tonight." No, there has to be a justification, an excuse, a rationalizing of the defeat. As Ernest
Hemingway wrote in The Old Man and The Sea, "Man can be destroyed but he cannot be defeated."
When Marciano was floored by Moore for the count of one, perhaps two, Marciano arose and gave absolutely no indication of showing a lack of "control of his senses," as you state, from which anyone could conclude, as you are trying to do, that he was ready to go, implying that if Moore could have got to him quickly, Marciano would have been knocked out.
It is true that Marciano was hit with a titanic shot by Moore and the punch was a punch of the kind and nature which would have also dropped lesser fighters who would not have arisen from the scrap heap of ashes. However, Rocky Marciano was not a lesser fighter. He did not know the taste of defeat. On rising, Marciano's sense of balance and equilibrium was fully intact. He did not stagger nor lean up against the ropes --- nor did he appear, outwardly, to be incapable of defending himself in any manner, shape or form. He responded to the referee, Harry Kessler, who did not give Marciano a standing 8 count, --- as Archie Moore maintained happened. In fact, Kessler didn't even wipe off Marciano's gloves when he arose following a count of four, an event, had it happened, which would have benefited Marciano by giving him more recuperative time. To the contrary, however, Kessler's actions of not wiping Marciano's gloves, benefited Moore whereupon Kessler then motioned for the fighters to continue their battle.
Referee Harry Kessler was fight referee for many great fights. Here he is in the Ali-Williams Houston encounter
Any poster can watch the unfolding of events and reach their own conclusion as to who is reporting fact and who is reporting fiction. The full story might not be told and/or the viewing misconstrued. Additionally, I suggest an interested party also read or listen to the words of Harry Kessler from his memoirs concerning the Marciano-Moore fight, as set forth in his biography, Million Dollar Referee. At the outset, in covering the fight, therein, Kessler describes Moore landing a right hand shot to Marciano's jaw --- and then continues his description:
"Marciano got up at the count of four. * * * Marciano on the canvas in round 2 stunned the house. The most
surprised person was Rocky Marciano. Even more astonished perhaps was Archie Moore when Rocky
quickly stood up! Here the Mongoose had hit his man with the most powerful punch he had landed in more
than 20 years of barnstorming the country and taking on all comers, often just for eating money, and the guy
didn't stay down! Such a thing should not have been possible and certainly did nothing to bolster Moore's
confidence in himself. If Rocky could survive his best shot ever, what would it take to pack him in?"
surprised person was Rocky Marciano. Even more astonished perhaps was Archie Moore when Rocky
quickly stood up! Here the Mongoose had hit his man with the most powerful punch he had landed in more
than 20 years of barnstorming the country and taking on all comers, often just for eating money, and the guy
didn't stay down! Such a thing should not have been possible and certainly did nothing to bolster Moore's
confidence in himself. If Rocky could survive his best shot ever, what would it take to pack him in?"
Moore floored Marciano in the second round
Another camera angle of Marciano on the floor as Moore's confidence rises
"I didn't bother to wipe Marciano's gloves on my shirt before I waved them back to combat; that early in the drama there was no resin on the canvas. Archie hesitated a couple of seconds before he came in. Maybe he was still reflecting on the impossible rise of a Rock who should have been down and out; maybe he was remembering the right he had caught in the stomach before he decked Marciano."
Kessler then describes the fight and the eventual knockout of Archie Moore in the ninth round. Kessler
continues in his biography:
"I have shown a film of [the fight] hundreds of times when lecturing to foundry organizations, service clubs or charitable groups." * * *
"After [Archie Moore] had gone home to San Diego and had nothing better to do one day, Archie came up with the idea that I had protected Rocky Marciano after Archie had knocked him down in the second round! According to the ancient one, I gave Rocky an extra two seconds count after he had resurrected himself from the canvas. The film disproves Moore's charges."
"It shows that Moore went to the far corner. I gave Marciano a normal count and when he got up, I gave the two of them the signal to begin mixing it up again. Archie Moore moved in -- but with a slight hesitation. Remember--he had taken a strong shot from Marciano before he put the champion down. I suspect he may have been a tiny bit reluctant to charge in too quickly!"
"Contrary to protecting Marciano, I probably did Rocky a disservice when I purposely dispensed with wiping his gloves on my shirt after the knockdown. It would have given him another second or two to recover! I was criticized by one sportswriter for my failure to do so but there wasn't enough resin on the canvas that early in the fight to make any difference. Maybe the reporter had a point. So did I: Rocky's gloves were not dirty."
"Archie's on going lament has reach me at infrequent intervals over the years. * * *
"Several months after the fight, Rocky and Archie met while changing planes at the Newark, New Jersey
airport. * * * [T]heir dialogue went this way:
Rocky: "Arch, I keep hearing that you're raising hell that Harry Kessler protected me in the ring! You know
I knocked you out fair and square! I don't need anybody's protection! Why don't you get off Harry's
back?"
I knocked you out fair and square! I don't need anybody's protection! Why don't you get off Harry's
back?"
Archie: "Well, Harry's a friend of mine and I just want to say that to build publicity for a return match. Harry
don't mind!"
Kessler from his autobiography: "But I do mind, Archie! And if you read it here, I wish to hell you would cease and desist!"
Kessler and his brother had a part in Moore's introduction to the world of boxing when Archie was 13 years old in St. Louis, Missouri at a time when Kessler had refereed about 25 of Moore's fights as an amateur and a pro in the St. Louis area. Kessler suspects that Moore was upset because he thought Kessler should have been more favorable to Moore. Kessler retorts: "I never favored anyone in the ring."
Craster Pushes On: You forget to add that the great beating Marciano gave Moore in rds 6-9 came from mainly low blows that brought AM's hands down and exposed his head.
Bardelli Responds: If you are interested in complaining about fouls, I submit that you dedicate a post to cover Evander Holyfield's 8 or more fouls of Mike Tyson in their second fight, with nary a warning or a point being taking away by Mills Lane, despite protests being lodged by Tyson's corner and by Tyson himself following his receipt of the multiple flagrant fouls inflicted by Holyfield. All of this, of course, lead Tyson to resort to the primitive and the law of the jungle as he responded as an enraged and wounded animal would and should, under the circumstances --- regrettable as Tyson's response was since this was a professional fight governed by rules prohibiting flagrant fouling.
Harry Kessler starts his count as Marciano drops Moore this fabled September 1955 championship fight
To the contrary in the Marciano-Moore fight, Archie Moore was not fouled throughout the fight let alone during the 6th, 7th, 8th or 9th round. Furthermore, Moore, to my knowledge, never claimed he was fouled by Marciano. The media never claimed it. Now if your understanding of fouling is making a man age before one's very eyes, in the ring, as the fight continues round after round, and the beating gets more severe with each ensuing round, then, yes, Marciano did foul Moore ... and plenty! But in the conventional sense, no, Archie Moore was not fouled in this fight.
Marciano pouring it on before dropping Moore for good
Sheriff Moore signing arrest warrant for Marciano
I feel that your lack of understanding of what happened in this fight stems from (1) your failure to review the fight film, (2) your susceptibility to believe what Archie Moore had to say about why he lost the fight [rationalization] without looking at the film, (3) an inherent dislike of Marciano's ruggedness and capability of manhandling his opposition which you somehow interpret as fouling tactics, or (4) a combination of each of the noted basis.
Its about over as Moore down made a valiant attempt to rise before crumbling back to the canvas as Kessler tolled the count of 10 over him thereby ending a great heavyweight fight --- and Marciano's last defense and fight
Harry Kessler started refereeing fights in 1927. By conservative estimate, he donated over $200,000 to
children charities from his referee earnings before he retired as an active referee. Refereeing was a pastime and not a vocation to him as he owned a large company and he was its metallurgist --- by all accounts, Kessler was a pre-1950's millionaire. As Kessler stated, "I never favored anybody in the ring!" Indeed, it does a great disservice to the history of boxing and the memories of either Rocky Marciano and Harry Kessler, to revise history by reporting what is not factual and all of boxing suffers from it --- including the reputations of the principals involved in this September 1955 epic encounter --- Rocky Marciano, Archie Moore and Harry Kessler.
children charities from his referee earnings before he retired as an active referee. Refereeing was a pastime and not a vocation to him as he owned a large company and he was its metallurgist --- by all accounts, Kessler was a pre-1950's millionaire. As Kessler stated, "I never favored anybody in the ring!" Indeed, it does a great disservice to the history of boxing and the memories of either Rocky Marciano and Harry Kessler, to revise history by reporting what is not factual and all of boxing suffers from it --- including the reputations of the principals involved in this September 1955 epic encounter --- Rocky Marciano, Archie Moore and Harry Kessler.
by John A. Bardelli
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